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Post by theotheradam on Aug 30, 2013 16:59:16 GMT -5
So guys this'll be our research thread. Right now, we have two goals. #1 Raise FGF2 Astragalus Membracaneus is used to raise FGF2, though there are many different extracts from astragalus, so for the best results we need to find which extract. I have heard that Withanolide III is used to raise FGF2 (even more so than Astragalus), though I have not found any studies, so we need to research about that #2 Inhibit FGF3/RasingCNP (They do the same thing) Two things that I know of, that we shoud look into Methylprotodioscin and Diosicn (Both related to alkoclar). I'm sure nearly everyone has heard of them. From my understanding this is the premise for alkoclars supposed formula, if anybody knows better please correct me. Added, even if alkocalr is a scam, FGF2 upregulation and FGF3 Inhibiting are, from what I know the two most powerful ways to induce growth Research for both is basically using google to find studies on pubmed for the validity of the substances, or We find other Inhibitors of FGF3/CNP upregulators and FGF2 Upregulators like AZD4547(which Inhibits FGF3) Sum it all up guys, find affordable things, that the average joe can obtain (so we can buy it without some research permit) that either raise FGF2, or Inhibit FGF3/Increase CNP. Once we have that done, other growth factors can be beneficial, but from my unerstanding they won't be as good as the ones above. VEGF Inhibition TGF-BETA upregulation BMP-2 Upregulation Pi3k Upregulation IGF-1 Upregulation Oh and Lucky777, you should make an lsjl log.  |
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Post by lucky7 on Sept 4, 2013 19:55:47 GMT -5
I know Lsjl up regulates FGF-2 and i think down regulates FGF-3. If this stuff did work then we need something potent enough. Some scientist believe in the amazon their is a plant that can help with every decease but we just have to find them. I think we all need to come together and put the puzzles together than we will make progress. I will make a log on here if i grow taller and then i will take others with me but until then i won't most people have failed with Lsjl here so theirs no point if others don't believe.
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Post by alphagenetik on Sept 5, 2013 7:22:16 GMT -5
Astragalus rasing FGF-2/bFGF : 163.180.18.21/dliimage/IMG1/000/018/40067899.pdf"Effects of Astragalus membranaceus on bFGF expression Astragalus membranaceus dose-dependently increased bFGF expression significantly, by 21.2% at 0.01 μg/ml, and by 34.5% at 10 μg/ml" |
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Post by 1mitchnathan on Sept 5, 2013 11:42:48 GMT -5
Interesting read, the paper even says on pg.13 that the subjects "were treated for 72 h with Astragalus membranaceus at the concentrations indicated." If such a significant increase in expression can happen, then such an Astragalus source exists, the problem is attaining it. I'm curious Alpha, where do you find these research papers? Google searches are turning up dry.
I'm heading to my first year in college next month, and I'm going to make use of the university's databases.
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Post by lucky7 on Sept 5, 2013 11:45:33 GMT -5
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Post by theotheradam on Sept 5, 2013 22:53:27 GMT -5
I'm curious Alpha, where do you find these research papers? Google searches are turning up dry. FGF2 and BFGF (basic fgf) are the same thing, it's better to search "Astragalus, bfgf" If such a significant increase in expression can happen, then such an Astragalus source exists, the problem is attaining it. They used a a very basic extract in the study, they just soaked the root and filtered the contents. Astrgalus is very easy to buy. You can buy them on alibaba.com. I'm just not sure if a basic extract like the one they did in the study will be potent enough, I'm sure alkoclar mustve isloated something from astragalus, or used a certain part of it |
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Post by theotheradam on Sept 5, 2013 23:04:31 GMT -5
Alpha, do you know if it was methylprotodioscin, or dioscin that alkoclar used? and going back to the Astragalus thing, I remember an Astragalus 98E, or E98, do you remember if there was a specific extract?
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Post by lucky7 on Sept 6, 2013 19:13:49 GMT -5
Man for me to carry on now we need something more than more of the same, you have open growth plates right, so if this works it could have happened anyway regardless. I don't know where everyone is coming from here, where they started but the way its looking for me is that no real difference has been made or is going to be made if we carry on the way we all do.
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Post by theotheradam on Sept 6, 2013 21:07:57 GMT -5
Man for me to carry on now we need something more than more of the same, you have open growth plates right, so if this works it could have happened anyway regardless. I don't know where everyone is coming from here, where they started but the way its looking for me is that no real difference has been made or is going to be made if we carry on the way we all do. No, I don't have Open Plates. I learned otherwise when high doses of peptides did nothing over like 4 months(I would have grown anyway, peptides or not, if my plates were open). And this isnt the "same thing" as everything else. We've heard that protodioscin and dioscin is good, but never has anyone confirmed it, or done a trial with, and it's going to be mostly "the same thing", we've found out that the best chances are going to be with fgf2 and CNP, and we've known that for a long time just that no one has actually gotten off their lazy asses and tried it. Just a bunch of bullshit theory. It's the goddamn first page of research man, if people going to give up right here, nothing is going to happen. Honestly this is the closest I, and (Speaking for other people) alot other people have gotten. If it seems like that doing all these over the counter supplements, (things like MENS, maybe quercetin) was enough and they were the most advanced thing out there, or the only thing that could have done something, but suddenly they don't work and thats the end of height increase, bro you are so wrong, just scratched the surface. That's what alot of people have done so far. Now don't expect any miracles to happen, we're going to find things then were going to test them, because some people are willing to work to get what they want. |
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Post by lucky7 on Sept 7, 2013 7:02:40 GMT -5
Your right, sorry for my little downer these last few days been feeling really depressed. Anyway i agree with everything and willing to do some research on this and Lsjl i want to make a stack for my routine. Can you explain this and cnp and fgf2?
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Post by 1mitchnathan on Sept 7, 2013 14:10:42 GMT -5
www.heightquest.com/2011/02/lateral-synovial-joint-loading.html?m=1This is a good start for a supplement list that works with LSJL, by Tyler himself. I accessed this on my phone, so if the link doesn't work, just type "LSJL Supplement Guide" on Google. With that said, the effect of these supplements will be very small. The most helpful thing for the LSJL towards height growth will be LSJL itself. Give it time, even if you don't see results don't be so eager to quit. Also, make sure you have a log that details everything. Age, height, weight, loading time, loading length, loading frequency, any notes of pain, etc.
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Post by theotheradam on Sept 7, 2013 16:41:40 GMT -5
. Can you explain this and cnp and fgf2? Basically FGF2 is the single most anabolic growth factor to chrondocytes. FGF3 is the opposite of FGF2, it retards growth the most. So FGF2 won't work without Inhibiting FGF3, and CNP inhibits the effects of FGF3. (So you could either find something to inhibit fgf3, or to raise CNP). |
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Post by theotheradam on Sept 7, 2013 16:47:49 GMT -5
Really be careful with measurements, if it fluctuates alot, it's probably because you're getting errors. Don't measure every day, maeasure once every two weeks, so if theres a change you'll definitely see it. Anything less that .5-1 inch (1.2-2.5 cm) from your starting height is measurement error and inconclusive to whether it works or not . Try and do it for at least 6 months-- I think that would be the miimum to see results. and GoodLuck |
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Post by lucky7 on Sept 7, 2013 19:44:30 GMT -5
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Post by lucky7 on Sept 9, 2013 13:43:45 GMT -5
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